Follow me into… murder?

Main cast of Hannibal, from left to right: Dancy (Will Graham), Dhavernas (Alana Bloom), Fishburne (Jack Crawford), Abrams (Brian Zeller), Chorostecki (Freddie Lounds), Park (Beverly Katz), Thompson (Jimmy Price), Mikkelsen (Hannibal Lecter).

I was going to write mass-murder but i didn’t really want my blog connected to who knows what searches so i wasn’t cheeky enough to take the joke that far. But it is the questions of the day for sure after it has recently been announced that  RA will join NBC’s Hannibal in Season 3 in the terrifying role of Francis Dolarhyde (aka The Tooth Fairy)  – the main villain of Thomas Harris’ Red Dragon Warning about opening the links to spoilers and well, gory details.

I shouldn’t have read that before eating the recently arrived fresh pizza, it’s now sitting a bit square in my stomach…

Look, this is by no means an attempt to have a clear opinion, i’m just dumping the fuddle duddle from my brain onto here in the hope that i can forget about it and carry on watching Robin Hood which i have just started at the weekend (and S3 is just waiting for me now to continue). But it will bug me now that i know about it, so here are my various thoughts on it as they are today.

Let’s start by admitting I’m a bit of an addict of detective type series, i’ve read them since i was pretty small and continue to watch them on TV. Every possible CSI, Bones, Wallander, Sherlock, Elementary, the Blacklist and others (to call out a few recent ones), you name it, i watched it. But not just those, i watch/ed the much darker stuff too, Criminal Minds (yes all 9 seasons, in fact i’ve got yesterday’s recorded ready to watch) and i have watched the entire S1 of Hannibal (alongside the Following). Some of the latter ones grab you and trap you so you watch until there is some resolution (ie because you hope for a positive outcome).

But i don’t like horror movies or TV series. I don’t like to be scared (i even watch Sleepy Hollow for example with the lights on). I don’t mind some suspense, even uncertain outcomes, but to still enjoy/be interested in watching a program i need the human element to prevail.

Obviously my preference for detective series over time comes from the need of knowing that good will prevail or that problems can be solved and likely from wanting to have the feeling of being protected. I can deal with quite a bit of gore as long as it is mostly in a forensic context as the science aspect fascinates me. It’s about catching the killer and never about being fascinated with the killer. Which is the reason why i stopped watching Hannibal beyond S1 (or The Following), it was too dark, to evil really for my psychological sanity. It disturbed me too much and stuck to me like something awful just at the edge of consciousness so i stepped away from it. Having said that i watched The Fall (Anderson, Dornan) absolutely riveted and that’s a case where both policewomen and killer fascinated me (one of the best and most interesting TV series i’ve seen recently); it is all about psychology and reasons why and very cleverly revealed step by step. I guess it just stays on my acceptable side of humanity, it’s not made the journey to the complete, extreme beyond-reason. It’s not deliberately out to shock you, stun you with terror.

That’s not to say i haven’t watched things that have scared me or made me very uncomfortable.  I’ve watched a lot of war drama and one could argue reality is much worse than any fiction could be. I’ve also watched Seven for example and Silence of the Lambs and both i probably shouldn’t have as the mere thought disturbs me still. Interestingly enough i think i may have watched Ralph Fiennes as Francis Dolarhyde, probably not the entire thing as i don’t recall it, but definitely quite a bit as i immediately recognised that image of Fiennes in the wiki link above and it made me recoil (and i remember the tatoo).

The question is not if he should do it. Of course he should if he has decided he wants to/can. Actors have to be much braver than average you and me. I love RA as an actor and a big part of it is precisely because i admire how determined he is to challenge himself, to push against his own boundaries and explore these in depth. I have no doubt his blood curdles just as much as mine and his stomach churns at who he is about to embody, all the more reason to appreciate his bravery in attempting to take himself there. I fully understand why for an actor it is very important to explore all the pits and extremes of humanity, the positive ones, like Proctor, and the darkest ones like this role. I admire both Fiennes and Hopkins for their evil characters as much as i do for their more positive ones 🙂 I am sure it has made them even better actors.

Also, the series is very popular (see titles above, there is an increasing abundance of this genre on TV these days and a growing audience). I think i am lucky in that although i enjoy the type of drama (murder mystery) i have not yet been completely desensitised to the level of violence (physical and psychological) depicted, which is ever increasing together with the growing appetite of the audience for it. And while i think it is brave for an actor to take himself on a journey from man to almost beast, i’m not comfortable with charting that journey myself.

I’ve got other more prosaic/realistic questions (APM protection mode ahead ;-)) Ever the doubtful, i am slightly concerned that this is a bit of physical typecasting. I wasn’t happy reading in the Tv article linked above about the hulking, burly, teeth business. I hope they decided to cast him for his acting chops primarily and not his physical body type, but i wonder… I’ve always wanted to see him do a baddie, but i thought more of a brainy baddie than a burly, very physical one if you know what i mean (biting noises in my head… ). He’s mentioned how much he liked Fargo and although i didn’t like it nearly as much (precisely for the everyman into killer twist), this is not something in that sort of vein but much gorier, brutal. I would have been more fascinated by something as psychologically twisted but fascinating as a journey as Fargo (in fact that’s the sort of baddie i would have been more interested in exploring). There is (don’t hit me please) precious little original about Dolarhyde as a villain (abused becomes abuser and the epitome of the worst of the worst, beyond reason and any shred of humanity).

Also, as you can probably read through the lines above, while i consume massive amounts of murder mystery, i’m deeply uncomfortable and concerned  with the growing trend towards ever viler, gorier, more inhuman violence which seems to make it acceptable/normal. In fact i’ve found less and less in this genre that i actually enjoy watching because it seems to be a race in who can do the worst.

I’ve also got a slightly smaller worry about what the role will do to him, but it’s only 6 episodes and i’m confident something else will come along and he’ll launder himself of the character soon enough 😉

So, will i follow? Will i (be able to) watch?

I don’t know… Unfortunately just reading the wiki page and seeing that image of Fiennes as the character has already triggered some scary thoughts and pictures in my mind (too much imagination!). I’ve stopped watching the series precisely because it made me so uncomfortable and also because the evil just spun in on itself. In order to follow the character i’d have to watch the full series to properly understand where they are going…

Curiosity killed the cat and that’s precisely what i am afraid will happen to me. That the curiosity about wanting to see him act will get the better of me and i will watch (and i know already it will be intense) and then i’ll have the image of some big evil monster literally gnawing through my brain forever… Will i be able to see/think of Proctor, Thorin without getting the monster in there too? I’m most afraid of those precious imprints being tainted by other images that i won’t be able to stop…

And these are my honest thoughts at the moment, uncomfortable as they are… disturbing enough that in the end i haven’t continued watching Robin Hood tonight as this occupied the little free time i had.

But there’s another day tomorrow (and another argument to be had about another baddie who puts babies out in the forest…and has tatooes… and is an assassin… no biting so far 😉 )

Edit – Extras (or recommendations for murder-mystery junkies like me)

I thought since i mentioned various stuff i might as well recommend some i watch/ed and enjoyed for those among you into the genre and to point out that the stuff out there is very varied indeed.

Favourites over last year:

True Detectives – brilliant, absolute highlight with amazing Harrelson and McConaughey, great script, plot, everything, brilliant location, i felt sticky and hot just watching it was so well made and real; go for it! It’s psychologically intense with a lot of character insight.

Fargo – definitely an interesting and somewhat original concept with Freeman at his best and different self 🙂

Broadchurch – great script, even better acting from Tennant and Colman; In fact i am not sure they shouldn’t have stopped at S1; it was so good that 2 eps into S2 i feelt S1 is very hard to live up to, but we will see.. acting still great from all cast in fact; A lot of background and community insight, complex and very human.

The Escape Artist – again Tennant and again at his very best; i loved this because it was very controversial, primetime and original in many ways; It was probably the most tense thing i’ve seen 15/10, off the scale and it is all in the viewer’s mind, not prompted by any visual gore at all; Which is why i think it was particularly good; the art of keeping the audience on edge without turning their stomachs and instead taking them to unusual moral grounds.

The Fall – riveting and so so good, Gillian Anderson and Jamie Dornan (she’s the cop, he’s the killer). Such interesting characters, not what you would expect and i marvelled at every episode how good it can be on such a low budget. S2 has just finished and i’m as excited about S3 as i was about S1 and S2. Little to no gore at all but plenty of psychological pits to fall in.

What i’m watching now

Some of which are 2nd seasons of last year’s new stuff-

The Blacklist – James Spader is brilliant and the idea is pretty original in mix, but it lives and breathes through his character. Interesting and controversial premise (which i like), quite on the edge tension wise. Almost in my upper tolerance level, but just, it’s episodic and the character development is strong throughout the series to keep you interested beyond some extreme tension moments. It’s in S2 at the moment, mid break and i can’t wait to see what’s next, one which has managed to be just as good in S2 as in S1.

Criminal Minds – oldie by now but still goldie, for me it still works as they managed to build a great actor team and the script continues to be good and fresh even after many seasons. A tough watch sometimes but once you get used to the format you learn that they keep carefully within a thin boundary.

Stalker – new on board so to speak, sort of fresh subject, well enough written so that it kept me guessing for quite a while about the main characters and still keeps me guessing at times. Dylan McDermott  does a great job in it and of the new stuff this is the only one which really caught my attention.

Elementary – S3 now and i haven’t missed an episode, very clever modernisation of the Sherlock Holmes idea with Jonny Lee Miller, Lucy Liu and Aidan Quinn. Witty fun with great casting (they kind of brainy stuff that really entertains me)

There’s repeats of a lot of stuff but the above are the things i made sure i recorded (to avoid any add breaks) and sat down and watched with eyes peeled. The is also Sherlock of course but that is on/off as they get round to filming it and some i like better than others. Let me know if you have any suggestions of things you have enjoyed 🙂

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41 thoughts on “Follow me into… murder?

  1. Hat es dir doch noch den Spass am Guy verhagelt, du Arme! Ich bin auch durchaus krimiaffin, aber wie du richtig sagst, es ist diese Verherrlichung der Grausamkeit, diese Identifikation mit dem “Bösen” die mich so schafft. Nein, das ist nicht ganz richtig, mit dem Genre kann ich leben, aber mich stört, dass ich mich mit dieser Rolle in Zusammenhang mit RA auseinandersetzen muss. Und das passt mir gerade eher schlecht ins Wohlfühlprogramm 🙂
    Na, vielliecht alles Gewohnheitssache und wie du sagst, sind ja nur 6 Folgen. Und so wie ich bisher ganz gut an manchen Frühwerken vorbeisehen konnte, sollte das auch bei Toothy möglich sein. Aber ich bin ehrlich, es ist schon ein wenig sperrig in meinem Kopf, diese Rolle.

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    • ich denke es ist schon die Identifikation mit dem Bosen… denn in der Serie geht es darum, die Bosen sind die Hauptdarsteller. Das ist eins meiner Probleme damit und sie stellen das auch noch al was Glamouroses hin. In Criminal Minds geht es auch meist nur um serial killers, aber sie werden nicht verherrlicht.
      Ich habe langt nicht all sein Werk durch, aber auch ich weiss es sind nicht alles Idealburger 😉 Aber das hier ist ein Monster. Ich finde es ehrlich gesagt auch nicht so interessant als Monster an sich, da gibt’s nichts zu Lernen, zu studieren, zu verstehene auch wenig, bis auf Gewalt fuhrt zu mehr Gewalt. Ich will mich nicht mit dem Charkter so weit beschaftigen dass ich ihn dann immer im Sinn habe und er wirklich meine Eindrucke uberschattet, ich will seine Stimme nicht mit einem Monster zusammenbringen usw, es sind halt Eindrucke die ich furchte dann fur immer verandert werden.. seufz, sehr problematisch, ich bin sehr gespalten denn ich kenn mich, die Chance dass ich widerstehen werde ist minimal 😦

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  2. Thank you for your honest thoughts here, Hari. I am totally with you on everything you have written – except that I do not even know what I am talking about. I have never watched the original *Silence of the Lambs*, and am not a *huge* detective novel fan. I very much enjoy psychological drama – but I am a sissy when it comes to any gory bits. In a nutshell: I can deal with the abstract, but not with the graphic depiction of it. Blood and gore just upset me. And I am not sorry or ashamed of that; it’s not naive or innocent, but a natural reaction. For that reason I am quite concerned that there is what you so fittingly describe as the “race who can do the worst”. Yes, boundaries need to be pushed. But I am not quite sure why we need to push boundaries on how much graphic violence humans can deal with without becoming psychologically damaged. Sure, we are bombarded with RL horror, anyway.
    I have just *attempted* to watch the trailers for *Hannibal* and I had to stop mid-way through the season 2 trailer. In truth, I wish I could unsee what I have seen. Yes, the psychological game between killer and cop is fascinating, and I enjoyed the way it seems to explore their minds. But despite the obvious highly aesthtisized displays of the victims, I felt I could not abstract what I was being shown. What upset me most, is, that Hannibal sees murder as an art form, creative expression, and that to me a) belittles art, b) glorifies perversion and c) plays down capital crime such as murder. I find it hard to believe that that has become acceptable.
    Anyhow, not exactly cohesive in my thoughts right now. I am glad you have written this because I look forward to discussing it all a bit more, and maybe pushing my own boundaries with *Hannibal*.

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    • I agree, there is absolutely no reason we should be comfortable with such displays of violence or displaying ever more twisted and damaged human beings. The way this kind of thing present it and the frequency of such series would suggest it is part of normality, when clearly it is not. Extremes like these happen, people do get so damaged, but it is exception, aberration, NOT normality. Yes it needs to be explored by science, my clinical psychology but really by art in such depths? Why? So that we learn man is closer to beast than we imagine?

      The main thing about series such as Hannibal or Following (and i have watched all there is to watch in the genre) or even Dexter (which i watched a few eps of but had the same issues with) is they glorify and glamourise the abject, the abnormal, the inhuman, the evil. And these are big budget productions, let’s make no mistake about it. It’s new and fancy and dark and fashionable… it makes criminal behaviour and abnormality cool? I do have issues with that.
      I’m not saying this should not be depicted in art form or that we shouldn’t watch drama which includes such individuals (see above, there are a few out there) but i think we should care more about the motivation for such depiction. I think the Fall is a brilliant example and to anyone willing to explore a bit i’d recommend it heartily.

      But anyone who has ever been in a mental illness hospital understands that glamour has nothing to do with the unfortunate circumstances when the human mind and spirit is broken.

      This is essentially no different than what the middle ages used to do when they paraded physically deformed people in circus. They play to people’s appetite for gore, the uncomfortable fascination with evil and abnormality. It has for me little to do with what the genre i like is actually about. And not very much to do if we are honest with the exploration of the human mind and fate, there is no evolution, explanation, understanding to be gained other than abuse creates more abuse. There is no redemption, no solution or resolution that is humanly acceptable here to be had. So what is the purpose? The marvel or stunned gaping at the horror? The confirmation that horror exists? hm…
      The more i think about it the more it twists me up.

      I like him too much not to try and be honest about what i feel about his work. But we can’t take it out of context. And there needn’t be an agreement or overlap between an actor’s exploration and my enjoyment of art/entertainment. We approach it from different perspectives and my reservations are by no means about his right to go on his journey. They are strictly about mine and my boundaries and interest in my exploration through art 🙂

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      • Ha. Since I spontaneously and rashly commented on your post, I delved into the wider topic of the aestheticization of murder in art. I am afraid I am gonna have to make somewhat of a U-turn. The history of art is full of it. One only has to think of the depictions of St Christopher. Or even Jesus on the cross. Sure, the context is different, But art is full of it.
        Mind you, what remains is my personal repulsion when it comes to both the graphic depiction in and the subsequent aestheticization of murder through art. But that is based on my personal “Kunstbegriff”, or the concept of art as *I* understand it, and therefore not really a basis for discussion. I think it is valid, however, to discuss the motivation for and the benefit of the aestheticization of murder. That is where the cookie crumbles. And I agree with you that there does not seem to be a plausible benefit for it, but a side effect that I find down-right dangerous. A general desensitization of the individual when it comes to violence and capital crime.
        I agree, this discussion is not about whether RA should or should not associate himself with a show that does these things. I have no problem with his role choices at all, in fact I believe that there is and should be no reconsideration of what fans want or wish, and I am very pleased for him that he has bagged a major role on what seems to be a high-profile show.

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        • oh yes, art is full of murder 🙂 starting with the whole Jesus on the cross indeed and much more, all the Antique stuff and modern stuff. Yes i guess we can argue murder is murder, regardless of the reason, but really it isn’t, the reasons matter. And i don’t mind exploring reasons of all kinds, i just think the type of murder these series depict are a different matter altogether…

          It;s not murder per se, after all i watch 80% murder shows on telly 😉 It’s the type of violence and how it is depicted.
          There is all kinds of fascination, take this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Sickert i’ve seen last year ballet inspired by his paintings and the rumours and found it utterly riveting and worth exploring.
          This is why i also fully support RA’s venture into exploring the dark side of human nature.
          But i totally maintain what i said about the series and the current audience. It’s the kind of violence and how it is explored..

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        • Well, clear this up for me – are the depicted murders predominently sex crimes against women? I *do* have an issue with that. Otherwise I am generally ok with murder as a topic for a crime novel/thriller/series. (Cannibalism really pushes my boundaries, though, I really don’t know why, but it physically upsets me more than any other kind of heinous murder method.) My issue is purely with the graphic *aestheticized* depiction of it because I wonder about the motivation, the message and the benefits. I very much feel the fascination of exploring the mind of Lecter, but I fear the banality of evil.

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        • Warning for readers.. gore ahead..
          well Mr Toothie kills families, viciously, gouges eyes out if i got it correctly, makes the mother watch the kids being killed and then engages in necrophilia with the females and biting. He doesn’t eat, that’s Hannibal himself. Glups.. so yes women are the ultimate target in that context.

          This is what i meant by abnormal, vile and extreme, it’s not murder with purpose, it’s murder out of insanity, broken spirits, deranged minds. And as you mention, it is ‘aestheticized’. That in a nutshell is my problem too, the type of crime and it’s depiction. And it’s more than just banal, it’s made to appear extraordinary, glamourous, elite? Positive values are attached to it and that disturbs me.

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        • Oha. Starker Tobak. *gulps*
          Leaving the issue of murder out of insanity aside (somehow the only valid explanation of murder imo), this is how I perceived the depiction of the murders in the trailer, too. “Extraordinary, glamourous, elite” is what came to my mind, too, and you are right, these qualities are positive, and that upsets me because the depiction then sends the wrong message. The issue is further muddied by the fact that Lecter is characterized as a highly intelligent man who commits the crimes in full consciousness. (I presume the Dolarhyde character as his nemesis (?) will be his equal in that respect?)

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        • yes, all fully conscious … having said that the Thoothie was abused … it’s where it hits the ‘nothing new, all done before’ button. Abused becomes abuser.. if you only knew how often that is done in crime drama, alongside the brutality mentioned above. There is nothing at all original about the character or type of villain here (only the glamourised presentation), another reason why i don’t share the excitement. Plus physical typecasting … (sorry i’m repeating myself…)

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  3. Thanks for your interesting thoughts about RAs new role Hari!
    Like I said before: I will give the series a try but I really, really hope it isn’t as gory as ‘The Following’ because during I wachted this I reached my limits for blood, violence and murder and stoped watching it after the first series (and I am not that easily shocked)

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  4. Tja, ich sehe schon: Die Tatsache, dass ich *nie* normales Fernsehprogramm sehe, sondern nur DVDs, zeigt Nebenwirkungen … Von den ganzen Serien, die Hari genannt hat, kenne ich gerade mal zwei Drittel, und die nur dem Namen nach.

    Prinzipiell gebe ich euch recht: Gewaltdarstellung muss nicht sein, schon gar nicht ausführlich, schon gar nicht mit einem positiven Unterton. Mörder sind nicht bewundernswert, sie sind keine Helden. Und “schneller, höher, weiter” im Zusammenhang mit der Darstellung von Gewalt? Nicht wirklich erstrebenswert … Stumpft das Publikum wirklich so sehr ab, dass die Macher von Serien und Filmen immer noch eins draufsetzen müssen? Nicht schön.

    Ändert trotzdem nichts daran, dass ich mich über diese Rollen-Info freue. Ich habe keine Ahnung, wie ich darauf reagieren werde, Richard in so einer Rolle zu sehen, aber ich freue mich wirklich, ehrlich und vollkommen drauf. (Was nichts daran ändert, dass ich auf die DVD-Veröffentlichung warten werde, wenn sich nicht zufällig was anderes ergibt.)

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    • gut, ich finde es gut sich zu freuen 🙂 Bei mir spielt auch eine grosse Dosis Bewunderung mit, dafur dass er bereit ist sich in so eine Rolle reinzuversetzen. Ich bewundere das nicht vom Thema her, habe ja wie oben meine Bedenken, aber ich finde es auf personliche/menschliche Ebene tapfer dass er bereit ist so weit weg aus sich zu gehen usw. Und bin an seinem Prozess sehr interessiert. Ich bin bereit es eigentlich nicht zu sehen, aber uber seine Arbeitsweise will ich sicher so viel es geht wissen 🙂

      Fur mich stellt sich nur die Frage ob ich es live im Fernsehen gucken werde, bei DVD ziehe ich den Strich, ich habe nicht vor der Serie auch nur einen Pfenning von meinem Geld zu geben, dass geht gegen alle Prinzipien die mich dazu verleitet haben sie mir nach S1 nicht wieder anzusehen. Es ist fur mich ganz klar Verherrlichung der Gewalt und das kann ich nicht gutheissen, mit meinem Geld ganz sicher nicht. Egal wie gut er spielt und auch wenn er dafur sehr viele positive Kritiken bekommen wird, woruber ich mir absolut sicher bin, ich weigere mich das Genre zu unterstutzen.

      ich hoffe es gibt Interviews usw und wir konnen viel uber seine Ansichten und seine Arbeitsweise bezgl der Rolle lernen, darauf freue ich mich schon 🙂

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  5. It sounds like you and I have very similar taste in television (Love The Fall, True Detective, Sherlock, Fargo and have been meaning to check out Broadchurch, Elementary, and Stalker). I, too, am a bit leery about where Hannibal is going to take me. We watched the first 2 episodes of Season 1 last night, and it was definitely outside my comfort zone.

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      • it is, isn’t it 🙂 But clever stuff like that doesn’t come around often. I mean from a certain point of view i understand how things like Dexterm Hannibal, Following came to be… murder mystery has been around for sooo many years, it is very very hard to find new things to do within the genre. And a good script is hard to come by in the tradition interpretation of the genre. So other ways to go are change cinematography, change the format, the shape etc. It’s one way to innovate. And i other genres i’d applaud it, but…

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      • I’m rather embarrassed to admit that I’m most curious about it because of all the buzz about David Tennant. I’ve never watched anything he’s in, yet he has this massive following. I tried Dr. Who and didn’t get it, but figured Broadchurch might be more my style. It’s on my watchlist.

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        • Yes Dr Who is an acquired taste 🙂 I like it, but not the massivest of fans, however the ones with DT are among my favourites.
          No need to be ashamed here, i like David Tennant a lot 🙂 I am trying to think what was the first thing i watched with him, it was Who. He is great in Broadchurch and i’ve been lucky to see him on stage recently and it has confirmed what i thought, that he is a very very good actor, whatever people say. Broadchurch has gotten viewers to start with because of him but a bit like the Crucible it is the whole that is great, all the actors are fab and so is the script, so worth a watch. I recommend the Escape Artist too, i liked it just as much, just not sure if it is available everywhere on DVD or otherwise as it is recent, the BBC may get round to airing it on AMC if it hasn’t already.
          But, if you’re interested to see his work apart from Broadchurch i’d actually recommend to see him do theatre, Digital Theatre has the much Ado and his Hamlet is also available (utube 😉 Both very good.
          The massive following he has comes from WHO but he is a very good actor.

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        • I am also not a Whovian but I really like David Tennant. He is a great actor and seems to be such a nice guy. Broadchurch is really worth to watch not only because of him (the whole cast is great) but that he’s in it is definitively a bonus 🙂

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    • ah glad we share the love of those series 🙂 And yes give Broadchurch a try if you get a chance, but go for the UK version if i may say so 😉 It was very very clever writing 🙂

      I’m totally twisted about Hannibal, i seem to be in a very very small minority here who has actually watched it and decided against it knowing exactly what it is. To go against my own decision, knowing fully that i dislike it and why i do does not feel comfortable at all. It had great actors in it when i began to watch it. We’ll see closer to the date how much information is available, how people will react. I can always quit watching after the first ep but my fear is that i can’t unsee what i have seen. If i come to wish i had never sat to watch it again i will never be able to undo that. Sigh.. tough, tough because i know i’ll feel bad for not watching something he will work hard for.

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      • I’m planning to give Broadchurch a try… after I get through Hannibal, with a break in 2 days for Season 2 of The Fall, which is being released here on Netflix on Jan. 16 (!!!!). I did watch 2 more episodes of Hannibal season 1 tonight, and it keeps getting stranger. I don’t know if I like it, but I can’t say that I dislike it, because it has my interest. Not too unlike my viewing of Spooks season 9, when I didn’t like the direction it was going, but couldn’t tear myself away, either. I will keep watching, not only because I want to be up-to-date when Richard appears, but almost to chart my own reactions…. this series is really turning out to be more in the horror genre for me than the detective/procedural genre, and the horror genre has never been my thing. I have very conflicting emotions about watching RA portray a monster. And yet, I can’t help but be completely intrigued with the direction he’ll take.

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  6. Gerade ist bei mir der Groschen gefallen, Roter Drache das Buch habe ich mal gelesen und musste immer wieder pausieren mit dem Gedanken im Kopf “Wie krank muss man sein um sich so etwas auszudenken?”….. bin erstmal sprachlos und melde mich später nochmal ;-( Schulsitzung 😉

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    • ich konnte sowas auf keinen Fall lesen, wenigstens beim Fernseher kann ich off drucken, bei einem Buch ware ch das Kopfkino nie im Leben wieder los 😦 Weshlab ich nie zB Stephen King lesen werde usw, ich seh fur mich keine Grund diese Abgrunde der menschlichen Natur zu erkunden, in keiner Form. Besonders nicht in fiction/Literatur die zur Unterhaltung geschrieben ist, historische Dokus usw sind da was anderes. Aber ich lebe nicht um in Terror Spass zu finden, davon hab ich genung RL Erfahrungen, Angst haben ist fur mich nie Spass. Andere Leute haben grossere Adrenalintoleranz usw, ich nicht. Und es ist etwas das ich gar nicht bereue. Ich hab’s versucht, ist einfach einen Schwelle uber die ich nicht ruberkann. Hoffe Schulsitzung war ok 😉

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      • ja Schulsitzung war okay, mein Kind geht ab August auf ein Berufscolleg um dort Abitur zu machen, mit Schwerpunkt Informatik und da war gestern Infoabend, spannend. Abitur mit Javaprogrammierung und Elektrotechnik 😉

        Also von Stephen King habe ich ein paar Sachen gelesen, meine Schwester ist ein großer Fan, aber der ist deutlich harmloser finde ich….. na ja kann auch sein, dass die Erinnerung trügt, Roter Drache ist schon lange her…..
        Die Mankell Bücher sind ja auch nicht ohne, oder die Adler-Olsen, die Geschichte mit den prügelnden Jugendlichen fand ich schon grenzwertig aber superspannend, und Stieg Larsson? Mein Mann ist beim TV gucken davon gelaufen (die skandinavische Verfilmung, klasse) , dem war das zu hart. Aber das ist alles irgendwie eine andere Kategorie von “Spannung” (ist das falsche Wort), “Grusel”? Auch das falsche Wort…
        Für RA ist das eine riesen Chance an neue Fans zu kommen. Bisher hat er mal grob vereinfacht – 80-90% Frauen, wahrscheinlich über 35, mit Hang zum romantischen…. ❤
        aber davon kann man nicht wirklich leben wenn man auf Dauer in diesem Business überleben will. 100k follower sind zu wenig für große Produktionen am Broadway oder die TOP Filme. Deshalb glaube ich dieser Schritt ist eine große Chance für ihn (auch wenn es mir nicht gefällt ;-( ) noch bekannter zu werden, v.a. auf dem riesigen amerikanischen Markt wo man sonst ganz schnell in Vergessenheit gerät.
        Ich wünsche mir nur, dass er nicht in der Kategorie bleibt!!!
        The fall, Broadchurch und Fargo sind bei uns noch nicht gelaufen, gibts auch nicht im Verleih, würde ich aber zuuuu gerne sehen, Du hast die nicht zufällig auf DVD?

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        • Das mit der Schule deines Jungen klingt prima, was man heute alles machen kann was es fur uns nicht gab, gab ja noch uberhaupt kein Internet 😉
          und ja ich finde auch physchologisch komplizierte und schwierige Geschichten interessant auch wenn sie stressig sein konnen, geben mir keine Altptraume normalerweise. Hier geht es um was anderes, und du hast sicher recht wegen der Audienz, ist wahrscheinlich der wichtigste Vorteil beim Ganzen, dass er damit ganz sicher neues Publikum erreicht. Ich gonn es ihm ja auch ganz gern, denn je mehr sowas dazukommt umso grossere Rollenauswahl hat er dann hoffentlich in der Zukunft. Ich hoffe ein Experiment mit sowas genungt ihm selber auch 😉 Er scheint ja eher Abwechslung zu mogen.
          Die 3 Serien habe ich alle im Fernsehen gesehen, aber habe geschaut gibt es bei uns als DVD, kann sie gern anschaffen, beim The Fall ist es wahrscheinlich besser ein klein wenig zu warten dann gibt es gleich beide Serien im Pack, die S2 ist gerade fertig und die bbc ist generell schnell mit den DVDs raus. Wir machen da was aus und planen auch die Reise (ganz lieben Dank!!! ich antworte noch auch auf die Email, aber ist mal wieder spat geworden heute) das war aber sehr schooooon 🙂 xxx

          Liked by 1 person

  7. Thanks for this. I’m a mystery/police procedural buff as well, but I drew the line at Criminal Minds and , despite loving Kevin Bacon, I never watched The Following. I’m hoping that the artistic slant on this show will make it watchable.

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    • Don’t and i mean don’t even get near Following, it traumatised me like very few things i ever watched and as you can guess i’ve seen a bit 😉 You could give CM a try, the team in the show is great and fun and there is enough light to make the darkness tolerable, which is why it works i think.
      I’m not going to discourage you from watching H 😉 I did for a season. Unfortunately the artistic slant is for me one of the nails in the coffin, i understand why it is the case and it is innovative in the genre but it is one of the main reasons why rationally i had to reject the show for myself. It’s what would make turning back on my decision to no longer watch it very difficult as well. While in other stuff RA being in it would make me like something more, this will not be the case here due to the content. But i really think it’s something everyone needs to try and decide for themselves 🙂 I don’t want to influence people in their decision at all.
      So far i seem to be very lonely in the corner of ‘watched it, rejected it’.
      I’d say give it a try and see how you feel, i just think maybe in this particular case due to the nature of the content we should try not to put too much pressure on ourselves to watch it. It is just 6 eps, of it goes well and his reach broadens he’ll be invited to do more TV work i guess so there will be other things, more movies should come out this year at some point and there have been longer stretches of no new stuff. I still have a lot to see from back catalogue 🙂 I think we have to allow ourselves for it to be ok if we don’t see something he’s done. We feel more pressure about this because it is new and we want to see him soon again on some screen. But how many of us have watched everything he’s done so far? Every series, every smaller role? 🙂

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      • Well, I have, except The Crucible. I think a lot of fans I know have seen everything at least once. I’ll find a way to watch it. If CM is criminal minds, I watched it for a while and then stopped. One thing I dislike about some longer running police/crime series, is when the writers start getting into the personal stories of the characters. The story arc with the team leader ( forgot his name,) the murder of his wife, etc. etc ), too far-fetched. I stopped watching it when one the characters did a Roz – that is, she died and returned.

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        • ah yes, when the search for any plot to keep things going is not going so well, I thought you hand’t watched Criminal Minds because of the gore/scare factor and was just saying although it is there and quite prominent it is not too bad in comparison.

          And on having watched it all i think that makes it more difficult, in that respect i admit i have it easier as i’m just working my way through the stash of unseens.
          I keep crossing my fingers that the Crucible will be released for download in the spring! I think once it is done in cinemas in February there is no reason to delay it much, technically it is ready i am sure. Can’t wait to read more on how people will feel about it 🙂
          Curious what you will think of H either way 🙂

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  8. When it comes to detective stories, I am all for “cozies” and the original Sherlock Holmes 🙂 Serious violence and gore gives me the visual/mental equivalent of an ear worm, sometimes for years afterwards, so I avoid it. However, I am less bothered by the forensic stuff like “Bones.” Have you seen “Above Suspicion”? There are four of them, all of which I watched for Ciarán Hinds as the irascible James Langton. They have a lot of forensic elements but also some disturbing serial killers. The author and screenwriter is Lynda LaPlante, who did “Prime Suspect.”

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    • O i have watched Prime Suspect! There are just too many sometimes to remember all but yes on that, see that is one area where i am all for innovation, I love female detectives 🙂 And yes i too find gore very much ok as long as it is on a lab slate or in the morgue 😉 Then it is science 🙂 And i have friends who work in the profession too, i’m ok with it and it actually fascinates me how much you can learn from it.
      Thanks for the tip! Had not watched Above Suspicion! Adding it on my list, will check if i can get it on DVD ro rent and watch 🙂 Always nice to try new stuff.
      Just recorded Silent Witness, the new series that is just airing on BBC, see how that is as at the moment all the usual stuff is on break so it gives me a chance to try out new things 🙂
      Feel free to share for recommendations, and thanks! 🙂

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      • If you watch AS, I’d be interested in your reaction. It’s like the opposite of “Prime Suspect.” Instead of a seasoned, confident woman, it focuses on a rookie, played by Kelly Reilly. IMO the screenplays are far superior to the books.
        I need to catch up on all the variations of Sherlock, especially “Elementary.” And I would like to watch more of “Bones”–didn’t get far beyond Season 1, but I enjoyed it.

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        • brill, i’ll get to it after March, it’s crazy schedule until then, too much on locally uff. I liked Bones a lot, watched a few series religiously and it is good fun but the latest haven’t captured me as much.. And yes Elementary is good fun and Sherlock too, i recommend the latter strongly, very well made and acted 🙂 It’s not for nothing they spawned crazy fandom :-p

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    • thanks S, glad not to be lonely in this corner of things 😉 I don’t mean to put people off though, everyone has to make the choice i think and it’s not an easy one.
      It’s a strange one for me in a way, as i obviously watch loads of stuff with baddies and i’ve always been open to him doing more of those thinking that i would definitely watch seen as i have seen a lot. This came out of an unexpected corner for me really, i didn’t think it would be outside my comfort zone quite as much, but it is.
      Very curious about his process though… not sure how much we will find out about that part though.
      But i’m also in the lucky position that this is just one of many things i haven’t seen, even if it is in the future somewhat it is in my unknown pool, so it is easier i guess for me to say not watching this as i’ve got a big stash waiting.
      It will be interesting to see how much we will engage with it, etc. Right now i am afraid of even seeing any image of him in it as i might not be able to put it away mentally, but we’ll see…

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      • There are still a handful of things he’s done that I haven’t finished or even started consuming — for various reasons.

        re: watching stuff with baddies — obviously we’d never say that disturbing or shocking things should never be watched. There’s a question about art and ethics and politics embedded in all of this and there are generational and generic issues and so on — the decision to watch or not to watch is so complicated. Readers always used to point out to me that in writing such close analyses of his work I was glorifying some stuff that was essentially schlock. And if this is artistic and edgy it may be aesthetically more “worthy” than some stuff I have spent a lot of time on. But the fact remains that taste is arbitrary and we have many things to choose from and finite amounts of time — and I don’t always think a kneejerk reaction against something is so terrible. Just that it needs not to go unquestioned, and I am sure we’ll do lots of that in the next year …

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